Wow, talk about thinking a book is one thing but it totally surprises you with a twist. In the beginning, we automatically think this book is only about Lydia dying and who did it, but the plot thickens as we move towards a motive for her death. There are so many details in this short little book and each one of them is devastatingly important to Lydia.
We are introduced to a pushy mother who is living out her dreams through her oldest daughter. We have a father living out his social ineptitude through his oldest daughter. And we have two siblings who are forgotten ad ignored, yet are fulfilling the parent’s desires without notice. The pressures placed on Lydia by both of her parents are the undoing of this family. I think this story truly provides reflection on how our individual actions affect others around us. In this case, we have two selfish adults (the parents) who are clearly so self-involved with their own angst and self-pity that they have projected their insecurities onto a child. We all want our children to do better than ourselves, but at what cost? It seems that the parents have convinced themselves that for their one child to succeed, she must do everything they always wanted to do but couldn’t.
This book touches on racial divides, gender expectations and suicide. It is so easy to see the domino effect of our actions and our choices. This book has the actual end result of projecting our desires onto our children. A very well written story with so much detail and dysfunction to make us all question our true motives with our children and the potential effects it will have on them. Lydia states on page 225 that “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.” For every push towards something, there is a pull away from it. And Lydia’s mother finally concedes that after seeing everything in Lydia’s room and knowing everything that she had wanted for Lydia, that it “had dragged Lydia underwater at last” (page 247). A very solemn conclusion but a final realization of what they had done to her.
What was your first thought about Lydia’s death? What are your initial thoughts about Lydia’s parents?
Who is responsible for Lydia’s death? Is 16 too young to make your own decisions? What age makes you responsible versus blaming actions on your parents?
What is your final assessment of Lydia’s parents? Do you believe the parents will change knowing what truly happened to Lydia? Why do you think that they both chose Lydia as their symbol of success and not Nath or Hannah?
How do you think their relationships with Nath will change? How will it change with Hannah?
If you are a parent, how did this story affect you? Did you reflect on your own relationship with your child/children? Where do you draw the line with your kids on pushing them to do better?
What do you think of the title of the book?
Really loved this book and yes, totally went in another direction than you expected or wanted. I was expecting to have a story line where you’re suspecting everyone as her killer, but you find that she was killed mentally and emotionally.
My first thoughts of Lydia was that she was hiding stuff from her parents. Maybe she had a secret boyfriend or she had been hanging out with the wrong crowd. I never would have imagined what ended up happening to her. I did think at one point (can’t remember where exactly in the book) that the brother was involved in some way. He was too quiet in a way. It was brief, but I had that feeling at one point. I think the parents were so miserable that they made their children miserable. That really made me sad because now as a parent, all you want is for your children to be happy and not worry about anything and you can put your feelings on them so quickly without even really noticing. I also think that they parents actions (leaving home and the affair) had a huge influence and affected each child more than they want to admit.
I think everyone is responsible in a way. I hate to just blame the parents or just blame her but I think it’s a combination of everything. Race, the siblings, the parents pushing her too hard and also her personality not truly wanting to be social and interact with others. I think all this made her so introverted that she was lost in her head too much and couldn’t see the way out. She did see that there was a way out and then that’s when she went into the water. It made me sad that she actually had a small breakthrough but it was too late.
I think the parents will change for Nath and Hannah. I think they finally realized what they were doing and instead of taking care of their issues on their own, they tried to fix them through their daughter which ultimately hurt her and them. They totally chose her because she was the “whiter” child. I think they thought she had the better chance of living a “normal” life. I think they will actually pay attention to both Nath and Hannah now and see what they really want to do and let them do it.
As a parent I realize that my kid is who he is and if he has interests that are different from mine, I have to support that. It’s not wrong because it’s different. I think there is a difference between guiding your child and pushing them. I think when you push, you’re forcing them into what society or what you want them to do or think they should do. When you guide them, I think you let them express their interests and feelings and you try to nurture that and guide them in the direction that they need to go in. You can always advise them on what your experiences were, but ultimately you need to let them make mistakes otherwise they’ll never understand why things are wrong or they can discover if they like something or not. It is a very fine line, but I think as long as you truly listen to what they’re saying, you can help them achieve their goals. And if they don’t have goals, then I guess you have to push them towards something! Haha!
The title is perfect. She was never able to say what she felt and she died keeping all of her thoughts with her, but left behind clues that she wasn’t happy and only wanted to make her parents happy. I really wish she had just told them what she felt and continued to live her life the way she wanted. I really think this book is eye-opening in the fact that the overall lesson is to do what makes you happy.
Valerie–I love your comment that Lydia “was killed mentally and emotionally.” What a great way to put it. I don’t know if I would necessarily label her death as a suicide, but her actions directly led to her death. But your comment made me realize that a physical death was just the next step for Lydia. Because by that point she was already dead inside (mentally and emotionally).
Great point about the question of labeling her death as a suicide. In her altered reality, Lydia doesn’t really see herself as drowning but as seeing the way forward. She even seems to look forward to the future. Interesting view point by both of you! You give me an image of Lydia walking through life like a puppet…having no thoughts and wants of her own…being completely controlled by her parents images of her being popular and smart.
Great response Val! I felt like the suicide was not only Lydia’s decision but it was the parents fault too. And I feel like this is a very real story for parents. We always want what is best for our kids but sometimes it is misconstrued as we want them to be the best. I think that the author is trying to tell us to open our eyes to what is actually happening and not what is on the surface. If everything looks fine, it doesn’t mean that there isn’t anything going on underneath (perhaps the symbolism in the drowning underneath the water?). I kind of felt that the mother had some missed opportunities to see that Lydia wasn’t great at Math and Science when she was checking her work and showing her where the answers needed altering. I also thought that the title is a great description of our lives. Sometimes we think we know someone but its everything we don’t say or see on the surface that actually makes up a person’s life. And I feel that although we are focused on everything that Lydia didn’t say, its because of what the parents don’t say to one another that is at the core of this rifted family. I like your lesson learned too…always do what makes you happy… even if its not what someone else wants you to do.
I read this book in 4 readings. I loved it!
The book begins by telling us that Lydia is dead. And doesn’t reveal how she died until the end. What an incredible hook. Very, very clever. I was enthralled.
I immediately felt sympathy for Lydia’s parents,
because that is the natural reaction for those that have lost a loved one. But to lose a child makes one seem even more vulnerable, and the possibility that it could have been murder an even more tragic situation. I felt sorry for Lydia’s parents.
I feel that Lydia was responsible for her own death. The pressure her parents placed on her certainly indirectly led to Lydia’s death, but Lydia’s action were directly responsible. I believe that Lydia knew what she was doing. It was premeditated, it was drawn out, and it was deliberate.
Right, wrong or indifferent I feel that suicide is always the victim’s fault. It is a conscious decision, no matter what the person’s age. My father used to always tell us that “suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem” and that has always resonated with me. Lydia could not control the people around her, but she had the ability to control herself. She choose to walk the path carved out by her parents.
I believe that Lydia’s parents did their best. It was far from perfect, but they tried. Although they overwhelmed Lydia, she was overwhelmed because they had tried so hard. Maybe too hard. I do believe their actions and demeanor will have changed after realizing the overwhelming pressures they placed on Lydia.
I think Lydia had to be “the chosen one,” because attempts with Nath failed and Nath was not of the right temperament. Nath’s father saw too much of himself in Nath and Nath’s mother could only identify with another female. By the time Hannah rolled around, all of their interests were invested in Lydia and they lived vicariously through her. Hannah was not much more than an after thought.
I believe Lydia’s death, once comprehended, led to better relationships with Nath and Hannah. The parents could almost have a new start with Hannah.
This book made me think about how my husband and I parent my stepchildren. It also made me reflect on my own upbringing. I realize how much pressure I have put on myself (and still do) to try to make my parents proud of me. I have often thought that it has sometimes been at too great of a cost. But I realize now that is my own fault and only I am responsible for my actions.
I love the title of the book. At the beginning I thought the title was about what the parents had never told Lydia. But as the book progressed I realized it was about what Lydia had never told her parents. Very, very clever.
One quip. I HATED that the author used the term “oriental” throughout the book to describe Asians. I grew up with a lot of Asian friends and minored in Asian studies. You never call a person Oriental. It is a very offensive. People are Asian, things (rugs, pottery, etc) are Oriental. It isn’t used just once, or twice. It is used throughout the book in reference to people is Asian descent and it used by members of the Lee family themselves. Why did the author, who is Chinese-American herself, do this?
Great responses Jess! I think you nailed it by saying that you “believe that Lydia’s parents did their best. It was far from perfect, but they tried.” I think that this story is not far from the honest truth in our lives. I think that these are things that happen everyday to people. I think that this is how most people treat their children. It a sad fact but I do feel that parents place a lot of pressure on their children to be “the best.” And I think that children reciprocate that pressure with trying and failing to be perfect. I think for it to end in suicide may be the more dramatic result but I think it does happen in reality too. Thanks for addressing the “Oriental” descriptor from the book. I feel like it might be a description used in the time period of the book and is why she continually used it. I think it has only been a resent PC change for people to use Asian instead but great catch. Glad you enjoyed this one as much as I did!